Curse

iamagod1 · Nov 03, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Ok people basically i love paragons and that type of role, and i now can't help but want to turn non paragon builds into more paragon roles. Am i making these bars better or am i just crazy? Am i onto something here?

example 1:

typical cripshot ranger bar (currently run by our gvg team)

8 wilderness, 10 expertise, 12 marksmanship
keen arrow
distracting shot
crippling shot
savage shot
apply poison
troll urgunt
lightning reflexes
rez sig

my version of a criplling ranger (para style)

6 wilderness, 8expertise, 10marksmanship, 11 command
keen arrow
savage shot
crippling anthem
find their weakness
go for the eyes
never give up
apply poison
lightning reflexes

if we compare the 2 builds here we can start to see a few changes, both spread poison, cripple, and inturupts. The first builds attributes are spread a little less thin, while the second build has its cripple spread through the 2 warriors our para and it. The first has rez and a self heal, while the second can also spread deep wound and give some energy back to monks.

so what do you think is my para version better?

and if so is it better then this para primary version of it?

crip para

8 leadership, 10 spear, 12 command
spear of lightning
barbed spear
disrupting throw
crippling anthem
find their weakness
go for the eyes
never give up
sig of return

This build loses keen for lightning, expertise or leadership, poison for bleeding, and ranger armor for para armor. Also of course bow vs spear.

please reply back on these builds ty.

Yue · Nov 03, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

"8 wilderness, 10 expertise, 12 marksmanship
keen arrow
distracting shot
crippling shot
savage shot
apply poison
troll urgunt
lightning reflexes
rez sig"

This is a bad bar.
What a cripshot should be:
Apply poison
dshot
savage shot
cripshot
troll
mtouch
nat stride
rez sig/free slot
14exp/10wild/10marks

What the hell is savage anthem?

Swift The Cunning · Nov 03, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Maybe he meant savage shot

iridescentfyre · Nov 03, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

In my opinion, drop the Keen Arrows for Sloth Hunter's Shot. It triggers its bonus damage more easily, more frequently, and frees up skill slots from "Go For the Eyes!" Though on a GvG bar I wouldn't bother trying to run a pure damage bow attack anyway.

Also, I'd recommend keeping it on a Ranger with high Expertise. Crippling Shot costs only 4 energy at 14 Expertise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

What a cripshot should be:
Apply poison
dshot
savage shot
cripshot
troll
mtouch
nat stride
rez sig/free slot
14exp/10wild/10marks

Agree 110%.

LifesRestorer · Nov 03, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

to answer your question: both bars fail. your bar fails more.

iamagod1 · Nov 03, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

12 expertise is a breaking point for 10 energy attacks, if u check wiki. As it uses head and plus 1 rune i get the cheaper crippleing shot. (mine is before runes urs isnt btw)

The only difference between my terrible build and the one u suggested is that i use lightning reflexes instead of the wilderness running skill. (my guildmate doesnt like not stride he says it doesnt last long enough)

As for sloth hunter goes its eotn witch i dont own, it cost 10 energy instead of 5, doesnt recharge as fast so i cant spam it to unleash cripple and dw.... just inferior in all ways... Not to mention it doesnt hit plus 45 when u get a criticle...

btw i run exact build that u posted when i ab and or ra as a crip shot ranger, of course with 12 expertise instead of 14.

Maybe you guys could give your version of how u would do the ranger/para build?

Div · Nov 03, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamagod1

12 expertise is the breaking point for 10 energy attacls not 14, if u check wiki. As it uses head and plus 1 rune i get the cheaper crippleing shot.

At 14, it costs 4. At 12, it costs 5. Learn to read charts.

Quote:

The only difference between my terrible build and the one u suggested is that i use lightning reflexes instead of the wilderness running skill.

And the fact you have no mending touch. It's like replacing gift of health with mending and mending touch with pacifism on an RC bar. Fail.

Quote:

As for sloth hunter goes its eotn witch i dont own, it cost 10 energy instead of 5, doesnt recharge as fast so i cant spam it to unleash cripple and dw.... just inferior in all ways... Not to mention it doesnt hit plus 45 when u get a criticle...

btw i run exact build that u posted when i ab and or ra as a crip shot ranger, of course with 12 expertise instead of 14.

Since when do you spam ranger attacks, unless your name is Yue? Oshi...

Winstar · Nov 03, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

14 points in expertise means your 10 cost skills cost 4, 13 means the cost 5.

lightning reflexes < Nat stride. No mend touch is bad. Part of the point of bringing a ranger on your team is its flexibility. They can move quickly around the map, excel in skirmish situations, and generally extremely self sufficient. Taking lightning reflexes means you have a long cool down, (30 sec rec) and no movement speed increase. No mend touch means you can't remove blinds, snares, deep wounds or whatever problem conditions from yourself or aid teammates in skirmishes by helping them out with a mend touch here and there.

You are crazy if you run those bars.

Aside from the problems with the skill choices and att settings, I'm not really sure why you're even comparing the suggested new builds to the cripshot. You're not making a cripshot better by turning it into a crip anthem paragon, you're just proposing a different template which would have an entirely different roll in the build you put it in.

RotteN · Nov 03, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

i don't think i've ever heard, nor seen your guild. And if you keep using bars like that, i probably never will ...

your "typical cripshot bar" ain't typical at all, it's a horrible bar. Ask yourself what good keen arrow does when you're blind all the time ? it's called mending touch and it's one of the main reasons why rangers are such excellent utility characters.

But anyway, to answer your initial question : no, the paragon will never ever not in a billion years replace a standard cripshot.
Reason is that you completely miss the point of cripshot.
In short it's a very independent character, capable of snaring multiple targets, on demand, and keeping them snared.
crippling anthem will NEVER do that, as
a) it is adrenalin based, and therefor not ready 24/7
b) you actually need to get it up, and then hit your target with another skill. No offense, but if you manage to do that, your target deserves to die
c) a spear has a waaay shorter range, meaning targets will escape more often
Long story short : a paragon like that can have it's uses in for example heavy physical builds (to prevent kiting) but it will never ever replace a standard cripshot ranger.

moriz · Nov 03, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

As for sloth hunter goes its eotn witch i dont own, it cost 10 energy instead of 5, doesnt recharge as fast so i cant spam it to unleash cripple and dw.... just inferior in all ways... Not to mention it doesnt hit plus 45 when u get a criticle...

sloth hunter's shot hits +47 at 10 marksmanship. at the specs you run it at, it's more like +52. it also doesn't need a critical hit to trigger it. i'll let you figure out which is superior.

ultimate cripshot build:
exp=12+1+1 marks=9+1 wild=9+1 prot=3
crippling shot
sloth hunter's shot
savage shot
distracting shot
mending touch
troll ungueant
apply poison
natural stride

if cripshots are not required to carry rez sig, everyone will run this. the versions you've posted all are inferior to this.

iamagod1 · Nov 04, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

fair enough, i guess im just looking for a char that will fight along with our two warriors and paragon at the flag stand more then someone who is going to run around solo all the time. The only reason i was going with no mending touch is because its not really supposed to ever be all that far from the rest of the team and the monk. I personaly like natural stride as well, just at those stats it lasts a mere 4 seconds, not quite worth it im my opinion. I guess it just seemed like since the crippleing shout applies cripple thru 4 people on my team, and lasts longer (what 7 sec for crip shot, 13 ech athem) it would be able to spread cripple much more efficiently.

Still opinions are what i was looking for and i got them. I guess last question is wouldn't a revised version of my crip anthem ranger be able to spread cripple much better when staying at the flag stand and with my team then a "wiki" crip shot character.

Div · Nov 04, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamagod1

I guess last question is wouldn't a revised version of my crip anthem ranger be able to spread cripple much better when staying at the flag stand and with my team then a "wiki" crip shot character.

It wouldn't serve the same purpose as a cripshot in terms of versatility, but in certain team builds it may be useful in providing cripple to crucial targets.

Keithark · Nov 05, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamagod1

fair enough, i guess im just looking for a char that will fight along with our two warriors and paragon at the flag stand more then someone who is going to run around solo all the time. The only reason i was going with no mending touch is because its not really supposed to ever be all that far from the rest of the team and the monk. I personaly like natural stride as well, just at those stats it lasts a mere 4 seconds, not quite worth it im my opinion. I guess it just seemed like since the crippleing shout applies cripple thru 4 people on my team, and lasts longer (what 7 sec for crip shot, 13 ech athem) it would be able to spread cripple much more efficiently.

Still opinions are what i was looking for and i got them. I guess last question is wouldn't a revised version of my crip anthem ranger be able to spread cripple much better when staying at the flag stand and with my team then a "wiki" crip shot character.

first bold -- Monks need to remove blind from warriors as they are the ones dealing the most damage not the ranger

second bold -- maybe, but as a ranger with cripshot you can spam and change targets easily and with anthem you may only cripple one target (if 123 spike or something like that) and you would lose out on flexability so could not split as easily.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 06, 2007, 01:22 PM // 13:22

If you're running a ranger without intending it to be your go-to guy for splits, then you're retarded.

The only time I would consider running a crip anthem paragon would be on a 4+ physical build, but even then I'd probably want a def anthem paragon to make sure my monks don't blow up.